What are the Reasons for purchasing new or pre-owned Watches like Rolex for use, investment or Collection?

What are the Reasons for purchasing new or Pre-owned Watches for use, investment and or collection?

I have been buying and collecting watches for 30 years and keep trade my used watch for over 10 years.  The most important points of advice I could give someone regarding watches are: Almost always, you get what you pay for...and, if you buy a quality, pre-owned watch, and able maintain it in good condition, your watch will act as an investment.  

I am 55 years old and I have had an interest in watches since I was 25.  Almost anyone that knows me is aware that I am a watch "Snob" or “watch fever”.  And every one of those people also have asked me "How can you justify paying that much money for that stupid watch?"  Every now and then, a buddy will say "I just don't understand you, my HKD$450 Casio works just fine".

Listed below are the three points that I will argue in the Rolex vs. Casio debate.  Individually, none of them are enough to support my argument....but collectively they provide some rational support for the Rolex, or other high end watch Like AP, PP, VC, FM, RD or JLC. Again, I am not trying to criticize Casio watch, they are good solid digital watch that can offer your hundred of functions that you cannot finishing learning after 4 years of usage!

1) QUALITY

A high end watch will last for years and decade, even it would be passed down as a family heirloom from generation to generation.  Quality watches are more durable and can better withstand wear and tear.  They will run for years and years, and with a little TLC* and maintenance, they can be kept in like new condition. Like I said...you get what you pay for. 

On the other hand, low end watches wear quite easily.  In many cases, wear or damage is irreparable.  Many people even call them "disposable" watches for this very reason.

As a general example, a rough guess would be that 90% of Rolex watches are probably still in use after 30  years....while perhaps 90% of Casio watches are in the garbage within the first 7 years.

2) PRESTIGE

 You get to use it.  You get to wear it.  People get to see it.  Although many people will deny it, one of the most compelling reasons to wear a nice watch is the prestige. 

3) INVESTMENT

A high end watch’s investment appeal is probably the most compelling reason to own a quality, pre-owned watch.  Prestige and quality won’t convince your spouse to agree with this argument.  But a pre-owned watch’s ability to appreciate might be convincing.

Let me start by giving a personal example.

This is the price of Daytona, GMT Master and Submariner over the past 15 years.

Year	Daytona  estimated price at Rolex AD
2013	$87,500
2011	$87,500
2010	$75,500
2008	$67,700
2006	$49,500
2003	$45,720
1998	$33,360

Year	GMT Master II
2013	$61,200
2012	$61,200
2011	$61,200
2010	$52,900
2008	$51,800
2007	$49,000
2005	$32,000
2001	$24,160
1998	$23,150

Year	Submariner price
2013	$62,100
2012	$62,100
2011	$62,100
2008	$44,500
2007	$40,700
2004	$32,000
2001	$24,690
1998	$22,600

Year	Explorer II
2013	$60,500
2012	$60,500
2011	$53,100
2010	$45,800
2008	$43,700
2006	$33,520
2003	$29,000
1998	$19,500

Imagine that you had purchase a Rolex Daytona black dial in 1998 with list price $33,360, and I remember that Daytona Steel is not an hot item in that time as people tends to buy Gold Rolex still, as a 80’s HKer culture for Gold Rolex, however we could see the gradual changes of Trend for more people going for stainless watch.

In that time, you can get as much as less 15% discount.. but as of Today, someone still can get less 14% of Discount!  Wow, WHO!?

So what you paid was HKD$33,360  less 15% was HKD$28,356, I remember still you can get a box of Char Siu Rice when you bought this watch at Rolex AD. As no one wants to buy Daytona in 1998, and 1999…

So if you keep the original Warranty certificate, box and the Red seal and if possible original invoice. If that watch has not been polished, you can sell it in the market with HKD$55,000  to dealer, and HKD$76,000 to end user via eBay! If that watch has not been used at all, the price could be even higher!  Note that the Daytona Black is now selling HKD$95,000 and have almost no stock in every Rolex AD, we have to wait for month... So Daytona seems to be the most sought after new Watch from Rolex! An outstanding Investment item.

What have you earned, you worn it everyday for the 15 years!... Does it worth!?

Friend and relatives always come to me for advice about purchasing a watch, and I will always tell them to NOT buy a new watch.  Instead, I would strongly recommend buying a slightly used one on eBay from a reputable seller, sometime the depreciation is less than the new one. Note that the new Day Date is coming, it is the right time to look for some potential good Rolex Day Date as an investment!?

TLC means Tender Loving Care.

HK Snob

Remarks, 2011 Price means Dec 2011, as within 2011, Rolex price has been adjusted for 4 Times, and Tudor for 5 times.

Note also since Dec 2011 till now Sep 2013, Rolex price has not been adjusted, When do you think Rolex will increase price again. I can tell you it might come soon, somewhere end of the year or before Chinese New Years latest.

What are "Gray Market" Watches?

What are 'gray market' watches?

A grey market (also gray market), or parallel market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The most common type of grey market is the sale of imported watches (brought by small import companies or individuals not authorized by the manufacturer) which would otherwise be more expensive in the country they are being imported to.

Gray Market Watches

Even reputable new watch dealers may be selling 'unauthorized' watches--know the risks and problems you may face after buying.

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What are 'gray market' watches?

There are many places where you can buy fine watches. The most important concept to understand before making a purchase decision is the difference between gray-market versus authorized dealers and how that affects the price, warranty coverage, and resale of a watch you purchase.

All genuine watches come from the maker's factory. The maker only sells them to authorized dealers and distributors. To establish and maintain an authorized dealer relationship and volume discounts, authorized dealers must make large initial investments in inventory and continue to purchase minimum quantities of watches over time. This can involve minimum initial and ongoing inventory purchase requirements as high as HKD$10,000,000  for a single dealer to carry each major brand.

For smaller dealers, this often forces them to purchase more watches than they can sell directly to their customers and to hold in inventory an excessive amount of merchandise of a single brand. So some authorized dealers sell off at wholesale prices the “Surplus” to the 'gray market' of unauthorized dealers--who then sell the watches at heavier discounts than authorized dealers are allowed to. This is not explicitly illegal, but it usually violates the authorized dealer or resellers agreements with the manufacturer.

The manufacturers, to protect their authorized dealers from the heavier discount offered to the consumer by the non-authorized dealers, refuse to provide in-warranty service on these watches. Unfortunately, this policy usually ends up hurting the uninformed consumer more than it protects the authorized dealers. The reason this policy is an ineffective deterrent is that the customer needs to know this before they buy the watch. But only a small percentage of buyers know this before a purchase. Many do not discover this until after they have a problem and are refused in-warranty service by the manufacturer or an authorized repair center. At that point, the customer sees the manufacturer as the bad guy for refusing to honor a warranty on a watch the customer feels they bought legitimately.

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How can I tell if a watch is gray market?

Gray market watch is genuine watches from the original manufacturer. They are not fakes or factory seconds. The only thing that makes them different is that they passed through an unauthorized dealer or reseller on the way to you. Though occasionally, some less ethical gray market dealer may also sell old stock, returns, or refurbished watches as if they were 'new' merchandise.

Here are probable signs of a gray market watch:

•Is the dealer's published price more than 20% off the manufacturer's listed retail price? (more than 10% for Rolex)

•Is the manufacturer's warranty card missing or not stamped with an authorized dealer stamp?

•Is the serial number missing off the watch? (It is not possible for Rolex, if the polished away the S/N, pls don’t buy!)

What does it mean to me if I buy a gray market watch?

•Gray market fine watches are typically available at discounts of 30-40%, (more than 15% for Rolex) compared to the maximum 20% discount (5% for Rolex) the authorized dealers are usually contractually allowed to give you.

Note that there are legitimate cases where an authorized dealer may give you more than 20% off current list price on a fine watch. When a dealer has stock they acquired before a manufacturer's price increase, when the watch is a returned or clearance item, or when they bend the rules when really desperate for end-of-month sales (particularly if they have a very large amount of returns after Christmas).

•While some gray market dealers are very honest and forthright about what they are selling to you, others may not mention that their merchandise is gray market or make it clear that you do not have a manufacturer's warranty on the watch.

•Your manufacturer's warranty card will not be stamped with an authorized dealer's name--or you may get no card at all. In either case, you have no valid manufacturer's warranty coverage. Watches described as having 'open papers' means the warranty has not been validated by an authorized dealer.

•If the dealer includes a warranty of their own, it will only be good through them--it will not be honored by any other dealer or the manufacturer's authorized service centers. For this you must trust the reputation and stability of that dealer to repair your watch within the warranty period. Otherwise, any repair will be at your expense. Normally Rolex would service any watch even you don't possess the warranty card.

•Some gray market watches have had the serial number removed from the outside of the case (but not the inside) to prevent the manufacturer from tracing it to the authorized dealer that sold it to the gray market. See the following section for more information on watches that have had their serial numbers removed. It is quite difficult for Rolex, especially the one issued after 2008, the S/N is laser burnt inside the bezel under the crystal.

Ultimately, the difference is whether you are willing to risk warranty, resale, and other problems in return for saving another 10-20% off the cost of the watch.

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What does it mean if the seller removes the serial number?

Having a watch with its serial number removed has several important implications:

1.Although not often enforced, many states and countries have laws making it illegal to possess an item that has had its serial number removed. Such laws treat watches with altered or removed serial numbers as the equivalent of stolen property.

2.The manufacturer's authorized repair centers would most likely refuse to service the watch even outside the warranty period. (Rolex would never repair or service watch that the S/N has been removed. However the latest Rolex S/N is engraved by laser inside the bezel). Even worse, some manufacturers have been known to confiscate such watches that have been sent to them for service.

3.Lack of a serial number may interfere in getting an insurance claim paid if your watch is lost or stolen.

4.It may interfere with your ability to resell the watch or may reduce what someone is willing to pay for it.

5.Some manufacturers can supply you with detailed information on your watch--such as its date of manufacture, country it was shipped to for original sale, features and movement Calibre, and even a copy of the COSC certificate for your watch--but only if you have your serial number.

Yet, a number of unauthorized watch sellers have a common practice of removing serial numbers from watches they sell to protect their supplier who have violated their contracts with the manufacturers by reselling merchandise to unauthorized resellers. So who protects you, the watch buyer?

The answer is that you have to apply the primary buyers rule of 'caveat emptor' -- buyer beware. If you are unsure about the status of a seller you are considering buying a new watch from, ask them specifically if they are an authorized dealer for the specific brand of watch you are buying. If not, you may want to consider shopping elsewhere.

The most alarming part of the way these laws are written is that, once you become aware that the serial number has been removed, you effectively become an accomplice to the crime! Here is an example of such laws from the State of Georgia, in The United States:

A person commits the offense of criminal use of an article with an altered identification mark when he buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a ... watch, watch movement, watch case ... from which he knows the manufacturer's name plate, serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed for the purpose of concealing or destroying the identity of such article.

A person convicted of the offense of criminal use of an article with an altered identification mark shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years!

So, if you want to buy a genius Rolex for you years to use, get it from Rolex Authorized Dealer, it would be requiring you paying higher cost, but it ensure the watch would be covered by Full Service under Rolex Service Centre. More important the watch is genuine watch made by Rolex, nothing has been changed, refurbished to be “New” and no frankenWatch!

HK Snob

Source of the original article, courtesy of http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/graymarket.shtml 

PS
In Hong Kong, almost all parallel goods are real watches from Manufactures. There are many gray dealers in HK.
Also I receive queries from Singaporean asking if gray dealer watch could be accepted by Rolex for repair.
yes, as the watch is real, Rolex will repair, not matter you have warranty card or not, so long they find the watch is genuine Rolex Watch regardless of age of it.
11 Mar 2014

Rolex Daytona in Platinum, an Iconic model's 50th Anniversary released in HK Soon

Rolex Daytona Platinum 116506

Rolex Daytona is the most complicated watch ever made by Rolex, need not comparing with AP, PP, VC for their treble complication watch as they are of different animals. Rolex is made for sport-game and

outdoor activities, where those AP PP VC are for showy on their technology in making such watch, expensive, for collection purpose and mostly used as a dress watch.

Over the years, there is so little been supplied on those Stainless steel Daytonas, Ref 116520 especially Black dial as each Rolex AD receive one to two per month.  This is the Rolex marketing strategy,

Why always there is stock  for two tone Dayona Ref 116523 HKD$124,100 whereas only limited supply for stainless  steel  Ref 116520 $87,500!?

Now, you don’t have to worry if you are having no concern on Money as Rolex has introduced the Platinum Daytona for the first time.

As an iconic model's 50th anniversary, Rolex released a solid platinum version of the existing Daytona watch with an "ice blue" dial matched with a brown ceramic bezel and chronograph subdials model Ref 116506  the Ultimate Rolex Daytona watch!

With the High classy Ice Blue dial and Brown bezel, an unique colour combination that only would be found in Most Expensive Series of Rolex Model!

This Cosmograph Daytona is a medium sized watch, 40mm, and among the smaller sport chronographs out there. Nevertheless, in solid platinum (with a bracelet) this is among the heaviest watches I have ever worn. Platinum is exactly my favorite luxury metal. While it does have a distinct color, I also like 18k white gold if you must have your precious metal more or less "steel colored." Platinum is heavy, hard to machine, easily scratched, and rare. People love platinum perhaps because of its quirks and rarity.

Inside the Daytona is caliber 4130 automatic chronograph movement –an in house made Movement.

The rear of the case - like all Rolex watches - is totally blank.

Price for the Rolex Cosmograph Daytona 116506 is HKD$589,000

The first one was being owned by Dickson Poon and second one could be you… yet to have stock in HK last week, but don't know now… So get ready with your Platinum VISA card for this Platinum Daytona, I am sure you don't have to queue as we do for the stainless steel one!!

As I believe when you go to buy in Rolex AD, they will serve you Yung Kee Roasted Pork Rice and also a cup of 40 year Por Er tea. The sensior sales lady could possibly massage your forehead, your shoulder and likely your wrist before put this watch for test wearing!! I guarantee you would get this Supreme Service Free!

As only VIP, celebrity could likely afford to buy such a great Watch…  Same money can possible purchase an BMW 530i, or a

town house of 1,200 square feet in George Town, or down payment for a Club house in City of Manila!

HK Snob

Where to Buy the sheep Skin for cleaning your Watch?

Someone asks me where to get the watch cleaning sheep skin...
Well, this is the place where we can buy the sheep skin.
This is whole seller and the price is good for a big sheet of sheep skin.
Sheep skin is used for cleaning watches and lens of your camera. if you buy outside, a handerchief size will cost you HKD$200. now the price is super resonable!

It is situated at junction between Dundas Street and Portland Street.

Address: Cheong fat Leather Co. Ltd
G/F, 120-122 Portladn Street, Yau ma tei, Kowloon, HK
Tel 852-27801327
office@cheongfat-hk.com

Yau Ma Tei Snob

President Watch Rolex Ref 1803

Rolex Ref 1803

President Watch Rolex 1803

I believe 90% people tend to buy Oyster sport watch more than anyone who would consider go for an elegant Rolex Day Date.  Day Date is also called “President Watch” is simply this watch was preferred by most American Presidents, Johnson, Kennedy, human Right activist Martin Luther King…etc.

From the enquires for enquiry watch amongst all blog comment, 99% is asking Non Day Date model, yes of course, these price is more affordable as a Rolex Day Date is 4 times more expensive that Stainless steel. Rolex Day Date does not come with stainless steel, only Platinum or Gold.

Recently we see a trend, younger people would like to go for the Day Date series, even a 22 lady, a lawyer undergraduate is looking for a Rolex Date Just Onyx as first choice and a Black dial Day Date with Arabic numerals dial as second choice. I am surprise what a taste she has about Rolex, probably her father a Rolex user, or her law practitioner wearing Rolex Gold Watch.

This is not Ref 1803, but the one the Lawyer student is looking for.

The Major Trigger for more younger peoples shifting their focus from sport Oyster series Rolex into Day Date was BaselWorld 2013; Rolex unveiled the new Day Date (Ref 118138)!

                                      New Rolex Day Date Ref 118138 to be released end 2013

From Hon Kong Collectors, we could see a new heat for looking good Rolex Day Date specially Ref 1803.

So, Why Rolex Ref 1803!?

Ref 1803 were produced in 1958 to 1976, from the technological aspect on evaluating Ref 1803, it was a new technology break though that could have both “Date” and “Day” display on the dial, an extra set of driving wheel system has to be incorporated in order do the job. As the movement has to be having sufficient power enough to change the date at between 1200-0100 midnight whilst maintain a power reserve of 40 hours.

Rolex developed the Cal, 1556 with high repeatable accuracy, durability and has double shock resistant protection, super quiet movement and that tells you how small the friction inside the watch.

The preset of the Date was made by “Niche forward 3 backward 3’ Adjustment: when we want to advance the “Date”, we could retard the minutes hand backward from 12 o’clock to 9 o’clock, and forward it again from 9 O’clock to 12 O’clock, the Date would advance one notch, and so on for next advance, That was an ingénues design. The 1972 An AP Royal Oak Jumbo were also adapted this method for the Date advance.

The Classic Rolex Ref 1803

Rolex Ref 1803 with UAE Coat of Arms

Rolex Ref 1803 Light Green Dial with Roman Numerals Dial

What is the selling Price now for Ref 1803?

Material Choice

Most sought after is Platinum ref 1805, extremely Rare and expensive

Next is Rose Gold Ref 1803-5 and White gold Ref 1803-9 and yellow gold Ref 1803-8

Dial with Diamond is more expensive than no diamond of course,  colour with Stella Red, Green, Yellow, Turquoise will be very expensive

Then the Purple, Grey, Brown, White, and lowest price is the most common one Champagne Gold.

Price is ramping up gradually within these few months, and I think it is still reasonable to buy, as still 90% of the people looking for stainless steel watch of Rolex, buy could you imagine that the same price could possibly buy a Rolex Ref 1803-8 which bring the whole history of this President Watch and could possibly work side by side with you for the next few decades?

If you had a chance to spot one, check and consider it. But there are a lot fake dial Ref 1803, frankenwatch made by changing parts from other model into this Ref 1803, go for a reliable source for the purchase!

HK Snob