Fake Rolex boxes

There are two of HK watch dealers told me yesterday that there are fake Rolex boxes flooded in the HK market.

So you should take note, as even a watch dealer could buy some of the fake boxes from dealers or his suppliers.

The fake box and authentic box are quite similar but come to hands of expert like I, can tell the difference.

Now we have only two size of Rolex Box the M and L, no more S size.

Currently the real stuff M box is selling between dealers from HK$1200-1300 whereas I heard that the fake one is HK$700 only. The price of the real box reaching hands of end user is about HK$1500.

Next time, pay attention on the watch you buy and also the box, if the box is fake, check 2X more on your watch. 

Wish you had a good buy from trustworthy dealers.

Check my other post on how to tell the good and fake Rolex box.

HK Snob

2023 Rolex OP Bubble is available in Hong Kong!

After two weeks of W&W, Rolex had announced this bubble oyster perpetual, we have seen this watch in Hong Kong already. Surprise?  I don't know if bubble is the right word to describe this watch.

No, when you check carefully you know, I think some people had taken a HD picture on the Rolex watch at the show, and immediately copy the colour scheme and design, fabricated this kind of dial.

Well, this is another reason I don't like buying this kind of  watch, there is minimum horological effort. This year they launch a bubble and next year they can launch Kubrick, and what you wear is just a gimmick of Rolex, the long-term value may not be much.

Like the tiffany blue OP two years ago, they are already losing their popularity and glory.

HK Snob

Insider information that Rolex would not like you to know

Rolex occupies one third of the Swiss watch market, being top player amongst all major luxury watches for the last ten years. Still Rolex's latest strategy is to take up preowned watch market by offering CPO service, likely will happen in Hong Kong in 2023. 

There are many friends coming from China recently called me asking why they can't buy Rolex, he said Sport models are understandable, but even Day Date and Date Just is not available at Rolex boutique.

Well, Rolex treats their authored dealers (AD) as their customers, the end users are not Rolex customer at all.

Rolex cares about the performance of their ADs commitment and controlling their ADs. 

Being AD, they have to keep sales  quota to Rolex in order to keep their dealership.

If you have no purchase history at the AD, you go to AD asking GMT Master or Daytona, their staff will say that asking you to leave contact and once they have it, they will call you! This is a way to make you feel better only as they don't want to see you anymore at all. After you left, most of the contact will be destroyed. This is very different with Patek, they really record your contact submit to the Local office GM to evaluate of giving you the watch or not.

Senior Manager or director is connected to trustable dealer, they used to sell dealers by batches at back door with sport model and least popular models at price they feel good with each other. The dealer then sells at a calculated price they can sell fast and with profit. As many end user tends to buy fresh Rolex, so dealer will like to sell fast and with good price. As older watch tends to sell at lower price.

Many people say that they can get Rolex watches with MSRP, yes I know a handful of people who can get almost every watch from certain AD, as they are real collector and has bought as many as 40 watches for last ten years, if you think you can buy as many as 3-4 watches a year, you may have a chance to become VIP at this AD, however I can see after last years, even these VIPS are less being called by their AD for watch collection.

HK Snob

What is Rolex next move to choose their customers in 2024

1980- less 18%-22% discount have stock, free Char Siu rice and coffee would be served if you buy a watch there.

1990- less 15%, have stock 

2000 - less 10%, have stock 

2014 - less 5% -8% still have stock, line up at waiting list 

2020- no discount, VIP has to wait, non VIP can put your name on waiting list, they would renew the list every three months.

2021- display only NFS, no stock, gray waiting list!

2023, VIP Please register reservation in advance if you intend to visit Rolex boutique, this happens in Osaka, Hong Kong will be next to follow?

2024 - prove to Rolex you are Billionaire? LOL

HK Snob

Some of my Rolex watches

Rolex is a kind of watch that 60% of watch blogger are talking about.

They are successfully and mostly recognized brand in luxury watches. of course seriously, Rolex can't be categorized as the top 3 watches in Switzerland in terms of craftmanship and brand history. But Rolex is very successful in marketing.

So most of watch collectors might have a few Rolex in their collections.

Worth to note is that the recent Rolex price is increasing high exponentially especially within these last two years.

The one shown in front is 126348RBR Day Date Turquoise was HK$497,500 in December 2021, Now it is above HK$600,000. 

The one I am spotting for appreciation is the Date Just Palm 126334 in olive, That is now above HK$130,000 and soon I speculate that it will reach HK$180,000.

HK Snob

Rolex Tiffany Double name

These three watches were bought in 2020 Q1 with HK$630,000 from a private collector.

How much do you think it worth now? I think it is about HK$1,000,000!

HK Snob

Complaint to Watch Manufactures on their trade practice

 I had sent two mails on for Rolex and one for Patek in a unhappy feeling about what we 

being a collector that I can't get the watch in weeks, nor years or even forever in the normal channel.

Whereby those grey dealer could get as many as they can at some special channel. 

Well, this is free market, I am fully aware but I am just asking them what is the proper channel to buy our watch we need to buy as a watch aficionado.

Lets see what is the response from them.

Or if you have any suggestion to get the watch we want at SRP, let me know.

You can send me private message
to my Whatsapp no. if you want.

HK Snob

Rolex's Success Factors

If I were asked what is best in terms of Function, value, Cost of ownership of a watch,

I think that will be Rolex.

Why not as the money you spend would be having a lot of quality in return.

And That is a very reliable watch for your Daily uses.

HK Snob

Colourful Rolex watches

All colour Day Date Date Just Precious stones.

Coral, Lapis, Marachite, Onyx, Bloodstone and tiger eyes. 

It takes us 20 years to collect these watches! 

Not many people who can have time to find this. Money is not an issue but time and passion for it.

HK Snob

Watch Investment

There is common understanding that an expensive purchase is an Investments.

Do you think your new Handphone, a 65 Inches TV could hold the value after 5 years!

Probably no, a smart watch, no?

A gadget-fashion piece that will be outdated and lose value as time passes. People don't buy mechanical watches for high-tech features, so they're not at risk of becoming obsolete.

Like wine, art, real estate in Hong Kong or Bangkok, other hard assets like diamonds, gold, people sometimes do refer to watches as alternate “investments”.

So what watches best hold their value?

Range from $5,000 to $12,000 that is falling into the majority of the average price of a reasonably Good WATCH.

Interestingly, Rolex major stainless line, the most popular lines are within this price range.

Rolex on the other hands maintain small model line that suits most of the people’s need, GMT, Submariner, Daytona and Explorer, Milgauss….

While you shouldn’t count on a watch to produce a solid ROI, you can do a few things besides just getting a Rolex to give yourself the best chance at making a decent profit in 10 or 20 years.

Of course, not all Rolex would help to make big ROI… not Date Just, not Air King, Not Lady’s model.

These are the suggestion

New (best is you get is at SRP)

Submariner Hulk 116610LV

Daytona 116500 Ceramic White

Submariner Black 116610LN,

GMT Master Blue Black 116710BLNR

 

Buy Pre-owned to save 20% on the new watch price…

Sea Dweller 116600

Submariner 16610LN

Submariner 50^th Anniversary 16610LV

 

Vintage

Daytona 16520  Black A series, K , S series Patrizzi – Rare (170,000 roughly made between 1988-1999)

GMT Master 1675 Pepsi, 6542 Pepsi

Submariner 1680, 6536

Sea Dweller 1665


As these things are still available at a 'Reasonable' Price.

 

Please note that a GMT Master Pepsi 5642 was HK$30,000 in 1990, but now is HK$350,000

A BNIB 16610LV Submariner Kermit “flat 4” was sold in 2003 at HK$39,500… Now HK$120,000!

Of course the current high preice is basically driven by promising USA economy and Asia share market, people would put some of their money into watch investment….


See Recent Sotheby auction on Patek Philippine 3700 in gold it was sold as high as HK$625,000!

How about Paul Newman’s “Daytona-  Drive Carefully, me”?

 

My Choice, so as if you afford, go for these four number models and 16520…. They are the best in ROI.

HK Snob

Watch Collection for sale

Some of the watches:

From Top left

GMT master 16700 paper, box and booklets- Reserved

Submariner 16610LN Hanshin Tigers - NFS

Explorer II Polar - Reserved

Submariner Kermit Full set 2007

Explorer II Black full set- sold

Explorer II Polar Full set Patina- Sold

Bottom from Left

16520 Black A series Full set- Sold

16520 White A Series Full set- Sold

16520 Black A Series Open for Price

Submariner 16800

Submariner 16610LN paper, booklet and box

HK Snob



Price of Rolex Could not be Crazy like this?

Submariner Hulk ref 116610LV
Green Bezel green dial launched in 2011 with current list price HK$68,100


I have been selling the Rolex Submariner Ref 116610LV into the Philippines since 2015.
I believe many of our friends has bought from me.
From HK$67,000, up to HK$69,000, and lately in this year, it hits the $70,000.
last month I sold one with HK$73,000
and two weeks ago I sold one to a doctor with HK$74,000


Well, If I buy again, guess how much I have to spend now?
HK$76,000 still I cannot get one.


Today one friend (dealer) saying that there is one offers to me at HK$78,000!


Well, there is some HK guys is selling over HK$80,000 for a Submariner.


GMT Batman
ref 116710BLNR
I sold it since it as launched in 2014 with HK$63,000
Now If I buy one I need, HK$70,500
I just sold one to a Indonesian last week with HK$71,000


The moral of this article is


All sport model of Rolex is appreciating crazily!


I speculate that Soon Hulk will be no more and it would be astonishing high price.


main Reason is Rolex has reduced the production of sport model by 40% in beginning of the year.




So when demand is increasing with so little of goods, price must go high,


Now all the pre-owned watch also up for more than 10% in the last two quarters.


Lets watch out and see what would be the best to buy and when to buy.


Remarks, don't waste time going to AD, the have almost zero stock for Submariner Ref 116610LN, GMT Batman, ref 116710BLNR, Daytona ref 116500LN, Deepsea ref 116660 D blue or Black.


HK Snob

Originality and Patina of a Rolex

Ref. 8171, Movement No. 56'924, Case No. 686'258, Circa 1951. 38mm diam. Sold for US$161,000 on 7 June 2016

A Rolex reference 8171 in stain steel that we sold at Christie’s New York last June. A pilot purchased the watch in the early 1950s and likely wore it for a few years until it stopped working for certain reason. That is one of the most complicated watches ever made by Rolex and featured a moon phase indicator as well as a complete calendar display. Probably due to the complexity of the movement and the associated cost of servicing it, the gentleman put it away and it passed down within the family unused for decades.

This Rolex stainless steel triple calendar with Moonhase and patina. Signed Rolex, Perpetual, Precision, Ref. 8171, Movement No. 56'924, Case No. 686'258, Circa 1951. 38mm diam. Sold for US$161,000 on 7 June 2016….. Seems you don’t think that watch could hit that final bid amount the Auction!

It is due to its originality and Patina!

 

 “Patina”

I open dictionary to find the meaning of “Patina”… Patina is a green film formed naturally on copper and bronze by long exposure or artificially (as by acids) and often valued aesthetically for its color, or a surface appearance of something grown beautiful especially with age or use, contacting the sunlight ultraviolet and or heat.

Eric Wind, Specialist in Watches in New York, reflects on the move towards ‘honest’ vintage watches whose appeal is enhanced by the ‘ravages’ of time:-

“One of the most interesting trend in vintage watch collecting has been the desire to move away from watches that have been restored and polished to look ‘like new’ in favour of watches in original condition with honest patina. Nicks, scratches and fading that may have developed over the course of decades of wear can enhance a watch’s desirability.”

This trend towards seeking honest patina has extended worldwide, particularly over the last fifteen years, and is associated with a massive growth in the number of vintage watch collectors. Many people are drawn to vintage watches for the beauty of having something that looks old.

 

 The concept that collectors prize originality over restoration is one of the things that many people find most surprising about collecting vintage watches.

 

Aged to perfection

The concept that collectors prize originality over restoration is one of the things that many people find most surprising.

These are the points we might need to note when you get into a Vintage Rolex.

Dial and hands

Radium and tritium lume on dials and in hands can look, from a warm creamy white, orange to a bright yellow, is so much cooler than the stark and sterile bright white look of LumiNova and Super-LumiNova found on new watches made after 1998.  So watch before 1998 is preferred as they have the chance to get “Vintage Look!”

The original sets of dot on the bezel, and the hands of the watch is usually different colour under the watch over the decades… Unless that the hands are looking so new with WHITE, or the bezel of a Pepsi GMT looks vivid red instead of purple after 30 years, It is time for you to have counter check by expert. As the hands or bezel may have been replaced with newer versions… thence the watch value will drop.

A tropical (dark chocolate) dial is mots preferred and price could be many time higher than the same watch of same age without tropical dial.

 

Case

Preferred unpolished.

If the cases were polished to remove scratches and make them look like new, making the lugs a bit thinner in the process through the removal of metal. A Fat boy is always preferred instead of a thin guy had been trimmed off his fats.

Of particular interest and desirability is a black dial that has turned brown or ‘tropical’ with fading over the years.

 

Note before you send your watch to Services at Rolex Service Centre:-

They always ask your permission to change the dial, hands, bezels even bracelet to new one.

They NEVER return your original parts after the service… Whether how would they use the parts is a big questions to me… well, you can guess… will they destroy it?

 

The dial of a Rolex Submariner can be 80% of the total price of your Rolex given by your grandfather…

Net time think carefully before you send the watch to Rolex for service…

My suggestion is KEEP it as it is as that is the Originality history of the Watch.

 

Other choice, send it to some of the renowned watch servicing company for a more intimate care to service your family heritage!

 

If you don’t like that Patina looks of the watch, give it to me I buy you a Char Siu Rice…. And I don’t mind keeping it for you.

 

HK Snob

 

Rolex Investment.

Rolex Daytona Ref 16520

Since 1988 to 2000

Rolex Watchgret

Should we go for new Release Rolex or a Known Vintage Rolex as an investment project!? I have no definitely answer on this… as both are one of the ways to make your Rolex becoming an investment item. It depends on Which watch you buy.

Imagine that when the Daytona Zenith 16520 was released in 1989, I was able to buy it with HK$29,500 at Chow Tak Fook.

If I had made up my mind to purchase say ten pieces my investment with Lump sum HK$280,250 probably I get extra less 5% discount.  Total investment cost $280,250.

Well, I believe I can sell it now at each $180,000 each now with NOS BNIB for black, so I could made

 a profit of $1,519,750!

 

However note that if I put that Money on real estate we, in 1989, I could still buy a house with down payment of $300,000 by now it may be having a net profit $2,000,000!

 

Rolex Submariner Hulk Ref 116610LV

So What’s Next!?

The Rolex Submariner and “The Incredible Hulk” completed their unlikely 48-year collision course in 2010. While the renowned durability of each may have been their only common thread for a half-century, the Baselworld 2010 appearance of the Rolex Submariner 116610 LV “Incredible Hulk” forever bound the two icons from Rolex and Marvel Comics.

This one doesn’t require much preamble; it’s a big green Rolex Submariner. Combine the “Super Case”/”Maxi Dial” of 2008’s 116619 Submariner with a green bezel and a green dial, and you’re one online forum quip away from a gamma-burst of Rolex collector infatuation.

This Incredible Hulk is listed at $68,100 at Rolex AD in Hong Kong. I think I have seen there is no stock for one in three month is one of my known AD shop…. So you still can put your name on the waiting list.. but don’t think that they will call you to collect the watch…

It is selling from Dealer to dealer from $60,000, 2014, $63,000 in 2015, $66,000 in 2016, $69,000 March 2017, and astonishing $72,000 by May 2017… (Crazy price)

From this data we know two things, generally Rolex had reduced the making of Sport watch across all lines beginning of this year and particularly lesser is made on Submariner Hulk.

I speculate this will be discontinued by 2018, Let’s watch Out. After the discontinuing, the price will up to more than $80,000 immediately.  And probably $120,000  by 2024.

HK Snob

 

Abbreviation

Watchgret- watch regret

AD- Authorized dealer

NOS- new old stock

BNIB- brand new in box

Dollar indicted here is HKD – Hong Kong Dollar  (1 USD- 7,75 HKD)

Watch for Golfer

Many semiconductor business executives play golf in the Philippines, Bangkok, Shenzhen, Seoul…

They told me, if you want to get an equipment purchase order from the Korean Semiconductor houses, Play golf…

It triggers me a question, What watches I should go for Golf?

 

Facts

The concern is if the watch will be able to survive under the vigorous swing acceleration of 60G?

There’s risk of shock to the movement or loosening of parts. We’ve seen their watch hands rolling around inside the crystal after a game!

The average male golfer swings a driver at a speed of around 80 mph. When the driver hits the golf ball off of the tee, it sends a shock up the shaft of the golf club to the golfer’s hand, and then to the watch, then to the balance spring shaft, that shock could possibly disastrous to cause the shaft tip broken though the INCABLOC should take up 99% of the shock. But who knows. Accident could happen! Besides, the impact can cause the hairspring to jump and parts to become loose, and cause the watch go Malfunction or loss of accuracy!

Experience told us these watches are prone to get damages:-

Thin gold dress watch

Complicated watch as Tourbillon or perpetual calendar, needless mention Repeater…

A Solid gold watch is soft and easy to get dents,

 

Rolex Submariner Ref 116610LN US$8,000

Phil Mickelson and Rolex Cellini

Rolex Cellini US$5,000

Bubba Watson 's RM038

2011 RM038 Euro 459,500

Golfing Watches

Professional golfers don’t tend to wear watches during gameplay, with the exception of a few. While Phil Mickelson prefers a Rolex Cellini, Bubba Watson is known for his Richard Milles. Super lightweight on the wrist, with a variable-inertia balance wheel that helps it withstand accelerations of over 500-G’s. Unfortunately, these watches are too expensive for some of us.

Sportier dive watches like the Rolex Submariner are made to withstand intense underwater pressure. It should be able to handle the shock of a driver coming into contact with a golf ball.

 

Or, consider a quartz. Quartz watches are affordable, durable, and lightweight—a great option for golf.. In 2005, TAG Heuer launched the first ever “professional golf watch” with a quartz movement, scratch resistant titanium case, and lightweight rubber strap. It even boasted Tiger Woods as an ambassador.

 

I had a discussion with many of the HK watch sales Managers, their comment on Watch for Golf is
best Rolex Submariner…other than that, a Nautilius, a Royal Oak, a Vacheron Constantin, Piaget, Frank Muller will be at risk! They are not designed for Golfing.

HK Snob 

Rolex Stock update

BNIB
Submariner Hulk Ref 116610LV  $74K
GMT Master II Ref 1167`0BLNR  $70K
Sea-dweller Single Red 126600 - 10 days to order - $115K


Full Set Pre-loved
Submariner Ref 16610LV Kermit, with paper Booklet and Box - $69,000
Explorer II Ref 16570 White dial Full Set - $34K
Submariner 16610 Kermit Flat Four -$105K
GMT Master II Ref 16700 $54K


With Rolex Service Paper
Sea Dweller 16600 , With Rolex paper and Box $45K
Day Date White Gold Day Date Oyster Quartz Ref 19019 , with Rolex service paper, Original Oyster Quartz box $95K




Watch only
Explorer II White Ref 16570 - $28.5K
Daytona Ref 16520 A - series $125K
Submariner Ref 16800 $46K


HK Snob

The 2017 Rolex Watch has been sold in some of the AD...

These are some of the latest Rolex found in Hong Kong AD, well, only little volume is supplied and I think more will come to Hong Kong.

Note there is blue dial Skydweller in stainless steel. that might be one of the way to widen the market for SkyDweller.

Keep an eye on that.

HK Snob

Rolex's Supply on their sport models is getting less and less!

This watch was sold to a Gentleman in Makati two days ago.

Since last November, I have notice that the supply of the Sport model namely Submariner, GMT Master , Explorer, Sea Dweller is getting less and less.

I used to get special discount like less 10% for years at Rolex AD, but it was not possible beginning of the year as they not even have stock.

Reason is Rolex wants to maintain a prestige brand image by reducing production bit trying to maintain the price.

So Don't ask me again until further notice to get discounted deal at AD for HK 888 Rolex :

Submariner, Daytona, Deep Sea, GMT Master, Explorer II.

So as the price of the watches.

The attached Submariner Two tone Ref 116613LB was supplied at a price of HK$78,500 to HK and Philippines from me on cash basis . but now it is HK$83,000

As it is really hard to get a price on my hands.

This is some of the gray dealer sale price , as a reference for you

DeepSea D blue Ref 116660 $95,000

Sea Dweller 116600 (discon. ) basically not available

Submariner Hulk Ref 116610LV $70,000

GMT Master II Batman Ref 116710BLNR $69,000

Submariner Date 116610LN $59,000

Price is floating base on supply this is an average figure for your reference only.

Whatsapp me more if you want the update price information and supply status..

HK Snob