Recent Price drop may be due to the saturation of Japan Import gray dealers' Rolex

Story was told that certain large batch of import Rolex is not paying the right tax through the right channel, and Big dealers are not taking any import gray dealer's watches as they might have not traceable  source information. Would be afraid of paying tax.


So the number of Watches going back to the market of Hong Kong and other Asian countries, so the supply is more than a few months ago.


So that is why we see few percent like 2% to 4% price drop on dealer watch price... Rolex is the major affected brand.


This may be sustained for a while and I keep an eye on the model, so long if that is discontinued model or with sticker should be good to keep for a while.


HK Snob

Bangkok Watch Market

Rolex AD at Paragon Shopping Mall

Thailand Rolex AD has No Sport models nothing except Date Just and Day Date, Yacht master II 44mm in Two tone and Solid white gold only.  After I had visited Airport, Paragon and Centre World shopping malls these three days.

Patek Boutique has nothing Nautilus not Aquanaut except Ref 5524G and 5524R, AC, PC, Calatrava, Eclipse....etc 

Ref 5524G is Baht 1.5M, you can get back 7% Tax at airport. That is HK$348,750 after tax refund which is about HK$10,000 higher than I can buy in Hong Kong.

On 5/F of Centre World shopping mall, there are about 6 watch shops selling pre-owned Rolex and Patek.

I say a few Rolex, total less than 20 Rolex with all the 6 Shops and About 4 Pateks.

I say one 5711 used but n hold, and 5980 solid gold.

What I feel is there may have more Vintage Watch shops that I have not been found...

All I can see is that they don't have many Stock.

That is why quite a few dealers is buying from HK every week returning Bangkok to sell.

HK Snob

Watch Price update July 2019

Recent Rolex, Patek hot item price has been little bit lowered 2%-3% in June.
That may be an indication of what HK current situation on too many unsold stock from the dealer. As someone may still hold up a lot Batman Oyster, Batman Jubilee, Hulk, Daytona Ceramic White. Other cause of price adjustment may be due to incoming Summer vacation. a lot of people is going for foreign country for vacation and they delay the purchase of watches till August or September watching of the price will be lower or not. As for longer term say second half of the year 2019, I don't think price will be further drop again, may be after September, the price will g up again to the level of May 2019, until next year Feb that people will keep an eye on the new release of Rolex, and many speculation n the discontinuing of Hulk in 2020, new release of Explorer II Ceramic...If you think you like it try to wait at AD, or if you can't wait , go for gray dealer, as it may be wise not to go into this price competition buying at such a high price. Today Dealer price is roughly: Hulk 116610LV HK$125,000-130,00. Batman Oyster 116710BLNR HK$134,000-138,000
Submariner 116610LN HK$85000 to 88,000
Pepsi 126710BLRO HK$142,000 to $144,000
Daytona White 116500LN HK$192,000-195,000
HK Snob

Patrizzi Daytona Zenith 16520 Price

The black Daytona W series Ref 16520s' made between 1994 and 1995.

Rolex used an organic varnish called Zapon to protect the dial.

Unrecognized at that time, the lacquer did not provide sufficient coverage and, over the years, the silver dials have started to oxidize, turning a definite brown colour as they react with UV rays and heat.

Even more importantly for collector, the changes do not stabilize and continue to take effect the older the watch gets.

This is what we called Patrizzi dials. They are unique, in the world of classic Rolex, unique equals to expensive!

The above one is one example of W series (1995), yet going into very "Patrizzi"!

The changing of colour takes time, years and that degree of brownie dial will add value to the watch to a degree of TWO times?

So this is another fun collector item of Daytona Zenith 16520 Series "W" after you have the last series A or P...

Price range between HK$220,000 to HK$550,000 assuming full set and AA condition.  (Price of Today 25 June 2019)

HK Snob



2019 Best Investment Watches

Rolex Daytona Zenith Ref 16520 A series

Watch is one of the best items for keeping your money worth more over next 2-5 years?

Not every watch is like Paul Newman Rolexes, nor Nautilus 5711/1A blue dial that come up with crazy high price nowadays.

And Watch Appreciation path is long and it won’t jump up two times price in days… We can track their price over 2-6 years and we can predict their future value. Still, there is the advantage that they rarely drop in value.

Watch is not like your Testarossa that you really have to spend money to maintain it… You can even put it in your vault for years.

Watch is simply an accessory that follows trends. And while trends are cyclical, I cannot wait 20 years for my watch to come back into style. So may harvest time is 5 years only.

Go Vintage

Still interested putting money on watches as an investment? Here are a few way to think about it.

Vintage Patek, Rolex, Vacheron Constantin, and Audemars Piguet, Cartier and Breguet are some of the items that you may consider to buy, as they are beautiful, Iconic and historical.

Buy from end user direct

It is almost the best way to sell a high price through auction, and seldom you can make another double one year selling your auction watch last year.

The good side of internet is also the bad side itself, everyone can search the watch that is on line and prices are transparent… There is difficulty you can really buy an under-valued watch through internet…

You have to find it your way direct from the end user, sometimes they have good offers.

New Watch Recommendations

Go for new Nautilus and Rolex Sport models at SRP preferably or at premium as last resort.

Keep it untouched for a few years, it will not make you in disgrace, probably a grim on your mouth when you see what they worth 3 years later.

Rolexes

The Rolex Crown is a guarantee that your money back, plus some bonus. If you can get it at SRP, surely there is no other investment ever better…

These are some of the watches came into my mind

1. Submariner 116610LV Hulk, prompt to be discontinued by 2020, price will shoot up to $160,000. Today’s price is $130,000.
    
2. 2019 Discontinued GMT Master II Batman 116710BLNR is now $140,000
   I speculate that it will hit price $160,000 by end of the year.
    
3. Daytona White 116500LN current price is $198,000 and I speculate that price will be further up to $220,000 by end 2019.
4. New  2019 Batgirl 126710BLNR Black Blue in Jubilee bracelet is now $150,000. I think it will hit
   $159,000 in September.
    
5. GMT master II Pepsi in Jubilee bracelet 12671BLNR is now $149,000, due to the cherry blossom pinkish red colour echoed with the blue on the other size of on the bezel, I think it will hit $170,000 by end of the year.
    
   Neu-Vintage  
   I like those series such as Daytona 16520, Polar 16570, Submariner 1680 as there is less argument on the dial, bezel hand matching issues and that is not too expensive, still not too difficult to buy. But I see great potential for appreciation.
   As a matter of fact they are made for use and we can use them as much as you can rather than those watches made in the early 70s’ or the 60’s.
    

1. Daytona Zenith 16520 Black A series now is $220,000 and by end of the year it would be like $240,000 -$260,000
    
2. Daytona Zenith 16520 W series  that is claimed to be “Patrizzi dial” as Rolex applied a new layer of argon protective material coating on the dial, after  few years the colour of the dial changed brownish yellow… that makes the watch price go high.

           Current Price of W series Daytona is HK$240,000 and I speculate that it will hit $360,000 by 2020.

1. Explorer II Polar 16570 White T-25 dial, this is a rising star in the past few months, don’t know reason why but seeing price up and up… It was about $45,000 in March and now price up a lot to $55,000 or more for the same watch such as a T series…
   So I think we should not miss this Explorer II White Polar.
    
2. Sea Dweller 16600, so call the perfect diving watch, it is made in volume much lesser than Submariner 16610LN, and it is distinguished by having a thicker body and no cyclops lens.
   I have sold three pieces in this year from $62,000, then $68,000 and $72,000 . Still it is best buy if comparing money you spent and thing you get.
    
   See Note *1 below

Patek PhilippePatek Philippe as a brand often called the most prestigious in the world.

They produce 1/22 of what Rolex makes a year in number of high-end pieces. So you’re looking at a bit more of an investment than Rolex and a slightly smaller market, but bigger margins if you secure a cool model. 

These are King Solomon’s treasure if you get it.

1. Nautilus 5711/1A  $700,000 ($229,200)
2. Nautilus 5712/1A  $720,000 ($307,300)
3. Nautilus 5990/1A   $940,000  ($414,200
4. Aquanaut 5968A $660,000 ($339,500)

 Price in bracelet is SRP priceConclusionThese watches aren’t that they’re guaranteed to make you money. Definitely they are better than the fixed deposit on Bank. If that new watches bought for investment, don’t wear it, keep it as it was bought with all the official invoice, accessories and bag.

We prefer full set for any used ones, keep all material, literature, box as it was bought.

They are quite small, store them separately with Rolex Crystal Box*2 in vault with the warrant card. And this will give you one some of the return after a few years, even a few months!

Please don’t run to me if your watch investment plan does not come into reality as I am not Nostradamus. 

Enjoy your investment… keep money rolling and buy yourself an ultimate Super Watch!HK SnobNote 1

All Watches mentioned here is about Full set, with excellent Condition, no dents, no polishing done.

Used watches are used watch that comes with signs of usage that is OK but no broken parts nor dentsNote 2Rolex storage box I call it Crystal box is the best storage device for your Rolex or your Patek
There are two size,  that is available from me Small one and large one.
If space is allowed always go for larger one let it  rest there in more comfortably manner!
If you need them Whatsapp me… I have a few hundred pieces. Still.
AD= Authorized dealer
SRP= Suggested retail price

Most update Price on Rolex in Hong Kong

Daytona Ceramic 116500LN White $210,000 (going up)
Dayton Ceramic 116500LN Black $185,000 (stable)
Daytona Green Yellow gold 116508 $385,000 (rising star)
Submariner Hulk 116610LV $129,000
Submariner Black date 116610LN $92000
GMT Master Batman 116710BLNR $131,000 (Discon.)
GMT Master Batgirl 126710BLNR Jubilee Bracelet $152,000
Explorer II 216570 White $72,000
GMT Master II Gold 116718LN $245,000
Sub no date 114610 $73,000
GMT Master II Green pointer 116710LN $92,000 (discon.)
DeepSea 126660 $119,000
SkyDweller 326935 pink gold Grey $326,000
Sky Dweller 326934 steel black


Patek
5711 /1A blue $660,000
5712/1A blue $680,000
5726/1A Black $535.000
5168A $680,000


This is the price of the week, what I can see is that the price has been slightly soften a little bit
But I think it will be going high as long terms.


Rolex is Gold, Gold is not Rolex


HK Snob

How do you start your watch Collection?

We are a small group of watch experts, all of whom were once in the position you currently find yourself in, and who would be delighted to help you avoid the mistakes they made when they started buying watches. We want to help you build a collection that you are proud of and that brings you endless happiness. Before getting started, here’s what you should know.
1. Take Your Time
“Collecting is more than just buying objects.” The process of collection is the main source of joy. “Anything I do, I spend a lot of time. I do it with passion and intensity. I want to be in charge.” This really is all you need to know before you start your own watch collection. In HK colloquial saying, “Buy expensive good is better rather a cheap bad!”
2. Think About Why You’re Starting a Collection
Do watches create electrified-joy in you? Are you seeking merely to diversify your assets? If the former, you’re ready to go. If the latter, think a bit more on it. Watches should above all make you happy. Learning about them, hunting them down, possessing them, wearing them, showing them to colleagues, sharing with friends, and even eventually selling them are all steps in the process of forming a collection. If you enjoy every part of the process, you’ll never regret starting a collection. Always remember a watch has to be a watch on the wrist not in the vault… buy what you love to wear. Than the cost will be justified. Don’t just buy a Patek and hide it in the safe deposit box to let it rust while you are wearing a Cheapo e-watch and talks about Patek!
3. Buy What You Enjoy
Buy what you love – are keys to building a collection you will enjoy for years to come. There’s no better feeling than looking at your wrist and seeing a watch that speaks to you. Over the years, your taste and style will change dramatically, and so will the watches that are in your collection. Let that evolution happen and enjoy it!Don’t follow your friends’ wish list and copy that as yours, because he may love only certain brand and model, will that speak to you? Build you one wish list of watches.
4. Study and do research
Do your homework. Learn everything there is to know about the watch you are after. There's a lot of information out there in internet, but not all of it is good. Ask questions and develop a relationship with a specialist – we are all standing by to assist, and we often have more information than we’re able to fit on our site. Do not hesitate to ask questions via Whatsapp... The better we know you, the better we can advise you too!5. Buy the watch, not the price
Many people buy a watch with only considering on pricing, remember a same model of watch say Rolex Submariner 5513 can be ranging from US$10,000, to 30,000! Why?

The Quality speak for itself, if you look at the price for US$10,000 after two years your watch would stay US$10,000 but the other one has been appreciated to UD$40,000 because the later one is of good quality whereby people is willing to pay more for…6. Focus On QualityWe can’t stress this enough. The quality of the watch should always be the paramount driving force and pieces of outstanding condition can always be used as a stepping stone to later refine. For vintage or pre-owned watches, condition and condition, the originality are essential – how well the watch was taken care of and the presence of all original parts and documents greatly affect its value!
7. Don’t Buy Into Hype
It happens. Every couple of years, there seems to be a new “Must have”. If that particular watch doesn’t speak to you, simply let it go. There are so many watchmakers, styles, and eras represented in the market, chances are we’ve got a watch that others will say is so you!  Remember, buy the watch you love! 8. Have Fun  
Remember, a collection Isn’t defined by a Number
At what point does a collection become a collection: 5 watches? 20 watches? 1,000 watches? We like to think it starts much earlier, with the very first watch. Every collector remembers their first significant purchase, and often times it’s the only watch they have decided they will never sell. You can learn a lot about watches by studying them, but you’ll know infinitely more through ownership. Last, have fun on your watches…make your every watch carry a story behind!
HK Snob

Rolex Price 1H of 2019

What Rolex Should I start with!?

Many of a friend asked me what should I start for a Rolex?

Well, I had been questioned this from Colleagues, and friends, and I say, all depends what is your purpose of buying a Rolex?

Most of the replies are buying a watch that he can use and at same time can keep the value for long period of time…say 10-15 years.

Whilst price of Rolex is getting crazy.. what is a beginner should start with!?

Well, when the World economy is not that bad, HSI is 30,000 points whereas the real estate price is highest in the world since 2000,  $10m cannot buy a 1,000 square foot flat in the town… what is the difference in a price up of $20000 for a Batman? Nothing to them.

Well, people laughed at me on my facebook when I said price of Batman would hit HK$90000 in May 2018,  I can ask this gentleman to look at the price of a Batman now, well, someone is asking $135,000!

And actual transaction os about $128000… Some dealer carries over 50 Batmans in his vault….

They aren’t stupid as they also bought them at a premium…no one is able to get a SRP price for Batman…. Except those Super Big Spender who used to buy jewelry or gold 0.5m a month like we buy a piece of Pizza!

Another day, there is someone saying that who will buy a stainless steel Daytona ceramic with $190,000?

He would buy a white gold Daytona which is probably $40,000 on top of it… He does not understand that people keep buying a Hermes bag when price is increased, that is to tell them can afford… and they like to use luxury predict with price keeping up.

If one day Rolex sales giving you a less 20% discount to clear all the sport watch,,, then that is the day you can buy Rolex in SRP… But will that be possible!?

Rolex is good in manipulating the balance of Supply and demand… though Rolex is really expanding their production capacity to fulfill those angry customers on the long waiting list…

So what is your expected price for a Batman up to? I think it is still possible $140,000.

When the new Batman with Jubilee is in the market , the price is $150,000

Another question on price of Daytona Ceramic 116500LN

I think Black will go up to $175,000 and White $195,000 by June 2019.

HK Snob

Rmk Price listed here is Hong Kong Dollars HKD

A Journey of Watch Collection

If you ask a young Japanese student what is a mechanical watch, 95% of them cannot tell, as since they were borne, watches are driven by Quartz with a tiny battery cells keep them running for 3-5 years. As Japan is dominant by Seiko, Citizen and Casio, the three giants for watches. Very Few people are wearing a Patek Philppe or a Vacheron Constantin in the street. May be some on the central of Ginza. Of course nowadays that is quite common to see Japanese wears Grand Seiko and Rolex….

Where as in Hong Kong, if you ask an average adult what is an Automatic Watches, 55% of men and 85% of women would reply is saying it is a battery Cell driven watch, though there are tons of Rolexes are to be seen in a Cinema and or Train. They are the watch user but not watch collectors… they wear the watch that had to be recognized by his friend and people around them, they might not know the story of the watch at all.

To me, my father triggered me the interests in looking for watches since the first day he bought me a Citizen Hand wind  as it was displayed as “Student Watch” in one of the small shop at Sun Po Kwong where we lived nearby…. With HK$35 back in 1967…. Since the day, I was puzzled by the maze of running for different kind of watches…

When I passed by Rolex shop, I almost stuck my nose through the window to see the beautiful shinning Fluted bezel of a Rolex Day Date… I looked at the price tag, I think I could not afford it in my whole life,,,, that was an equivalent of my father’s four years’ salary… but every time I passed by I told myself ,.. one day I must have one like this…!

Gradually after I worked on M/V… and Oil Rigs… I started to buy myself Rolex Date Just stainless steel, then Cartier Two Tone Santos, Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso Pink gold…

After years, I got my first Daytona 16528 with Diamond, and Then I bought a Jaeger LeCoultre Perpetual Calendar in Yellow Gold with single Crown adjustment.

After I worked in the current company, I bought my first wife solid gold Date Just 31mm, but was stolen later on, so sad…

Moreover, I bought a few Rolexes to my wife, for another one… I got her a Solid gold Rolex Date Just with diamonds, and a Tudor Two Tone when we married, an Oyster Perpetual in steel, a Date Just in Yellow gold tone with date… and an Explorer II Polar…

Sooner I bought a few watches for another one I love,, a Day Date Solid gold 19018 Birch, a Day Date 18338  in blue, a Citizen minutes Repeater, an Oyster Quartz stainless 17000 and a two tone 17013 as she loved them for not stop moving after 40 hours….

There are as many answers to that question as there are collectors, but I have noticed one fundamental truth that binds them together. No matter their age, race, experience, and budget, all watch collectors can still remember the first truly remarkable mechanical watch they handled, or bought by someone?

What is the best beloved dress watch I like, it is rare and beautiful Constantin Triple Calendar wristwatch from the 1990s. It is a truly special, functional and not-too-unaffordable, the kind of watch that inspires a new level of respect for the art of watchmaking.  For myself… I think I like most Vacheron Constantin, Patek Philippe, Ademars Piguet, Cartier, Piaget,  Rolex, Panerai, IWC, jaeger..

I don’t know how many Rolex I have owned, but to be honesty I treat them as goods and tools Only few Rolex that I admire… such as the Day Date Onyx 18038, Submariner 16618 in onyx…probably a white Gold 1803 in Mahogany dial… or even a Coral which this is harder to find than to get to the moon by plane….what plane?

Recently when I get old I narrow down my collection and I told myself I prefer to spend less money on more variety of those not too complicated watches rather than to invest heavily on few expensive Complications…

In recently I start to collect some special rare species such as Presidents’ Watches… some watches of certain important people that carry a story…

If you ask me what is the best watch I like… Honesty I think the answer is still the same over the three decades…. A Platinum Day Date…or a nice Patek Dress watches…

If you ask me how about a Nautilus Ref 5712/A-001 or 5711/A-001? All I can say…. That is love and hate…

If you are old watch collector, you probably know what I mean…

HK Snob

How we should buy a Patek Philippe Nautilus with SRP!?

The auction route isn’t much easier. Patek Philippe easily beats all other fine watchmakers when it comes to record-setting hammer prices, and pieces continue to appreciate in value, as much as 100 times the original price. It’s estimated that less than one million watches have been produced since the company was founded over 175 years ago, whereas Rolex makes close to one millions watch within the years 2006. Even Rolex has reduced their production volume. Rolex still produces as many as 700,000 watches in 2017.

This making Patek Philippe watches among the rarest timepieces on the market. 

Of course, with all the hoop-jumping required to buy the real thing, there is some fake stuff in the market. We will cover this topics in next post. 

Buying a Patek Philippe is a life time investment. I must take it seriously..

Buying a Patek Philippe watch isn’t simple as just you have the money or a black diamond credit card.  

Of course if you are those super rich persons, you don’t have to read this article as you can buy anywhere with you money paying at the market price. 

I am talking about buying those hot model at SRP (suggested retail price).

Hot Model is Nautilus or Aquanaut such as Ref 5711/1A-001, 5712/1A-001, 5990/1A-001, 5986A… stainless steel models. 

The market situation is so hot that we normally have to wait for years to get one of these watches at the Patek Philippe Boutique.  

Last year yesterday this time I went to Geneve Patek Philippe, the senior sales executives told me that a local Swiss had to wait for 7 years for a Patek Ref 5712/1A-001.

It is time to line up for a Patek for your Son!! LOL. 

Patek steel sport watches is somewhat similar to Rolex Daytona Steel model. Market price is over 2X of the SRP! 

So for example a Rolex Daytona Ceramic Ref 116500LN SRP is $97,600 but normally you can only get one at the market with HK$188,000 or more for the white *1. 

Patek most sought after steel model like Ref 5712 SRP is HK$298,740, but market price is about $500,000-$700,000. 

For the most intricate styles, called Grand Complications, or the popular Nautilus and Aquanaut sport models, potential buyers must submit to an application process. The Stern family, which has owned the company since 1932, reviews each application to judge whether a prospective owner has a proven track record with the company and appreciates the fine craftsmanship of each timepiece. 

In Hong Kong, only known few of my friends had successfully bought a Nautilus Ref 5712 and Ref 5711 with SRP. 

These are the list of the preferred name that Patek would give the watch with higher priority. 

University professor

Doctors

Movie Star

Successful Business man

Banker

Political Figures

Scientist

Senior Position in a Public listed company

Successful individuals

*2 

Hints

No need to be acting as a Patek Expert in front of the sales to please them.Some of us may know more than they on the watches, but they are the one to write up some points to send to the head office for recommendation. Just act normal, purpose is to buy a Patek Watch! 

The name card is the key, but you cannot borrow your CEO’s name card to go as when they call, they will call the number on the card. When you buy, you must be the real card holder. 

You leave your name card at one Boutique will do, no need to go to other boutique. 

My suggestion is really make up a touching story to influence the salesman to tell this is your watch intented to buy, use and pass to your son in future… 

They hate Dealer, if they smell you are the dealer, there is no more offer for you. 

I know one Patek Collectors who has over 100 Pateks and every time he gets the watch he wants at Boutique as everyone knows him he buys and he appreciates the watch, and never sell out… So these are the people Patek likes to do business with. 

The process is to leave you name card at any Patek Philippe shop written the model you want, our suggestion is to put maximum three models. 

They will submit to the general Manager in the Hong Kong head office to evaluate if they would sell it to you. 

Normally you should get a call from the Boutique within three weeks. 

Patek Philippe is still family-owned company. The independence for unlimited freedom and passion on design. Highly tradition and retaining good values.

Start to do your research and purchase a Patek for you and your family members now! 

All Patek Philippe timepieces are always a classic! 

This is an article that I think it may be helpful for you to get a Patek hot model at SRP, there are already three persons we know get the watch they want by leaving his name card at Patek Boutique within the last 5 months in Hong Kong. 

Everyone is happily bringing his holy grail home… !

Special Reminder, Nautilus Ref 5712-1A is really quite thin and if your wrist is big you might find that watch is too thin for you, at that time, call me and I buy from you.
Remarks

*1 Price of Today 14 April, 2019.

*2 Patek Never have announced that there is a list of preferred customer officially. 

Price listed here is HKD  

HK Snob  

PS
Address The Hour Glass Landmark - Patek Philippe Hong Kong Official Retailer

---

the Landmark, G/F Shop.G64, 14 Des Voeux,Central

10:00- 19:30
Tel:  ： 2522 0262 

The Patek Philippe (Hour Glass)  (on the right side of Holiday Inn Golden Miles Hotel
63, Nathan Road,
10:00-21:30

Tel :2723 2181