Hong Kong Watch price trend March to November 2022

As we can see here price is keep dropping since March to November. 

The reasons are complicated as partly it the buyer's market now. Larger sound dealers bought expensive watches Q1 will not eager to sell at this moment coz of the huge loss, however many smaller dealer or individual seller are selling them for cash, that had created a huge drop of price average of 30%

Most 80% of buyers are so worry the price will not come to an end to drop, so they keep observative. 

These are watch price in HKD, for new watches at market price.

Note the heat of 2022 Royal Oak 16202 was $2m in March, now is about $740,000 which is about 2.7X higher than MRSP! but this is one of the iconic Royal Oak.

BNIB =brand new in box

NOS= new old stock

HK Snob

 

My Audemars Piguet 5402BA A series S/N XX is finally return to me hands

After a decision to take back this watch from AP house, I passed to one of the best watch expert in Hong Kong to do the oiling and complete service.

 It took him one week focusing on this watch.

Finally he passed me the watch in tip top condition, no polishing of course.

This watch had been leaving me for past 6 years and finally came back to me possession.

The time is adjusted to gain 8 second per day, that is good for Chinese like I

The first two pictures are the new condition of it. 

HK Snob

There are so many good watches that may be good for your collection

The passion for watch has to be built up with years of collection, understanding horology, meeting with some of the collectors and representatives from the individually watch company.

There is no need to follow what 80% of most people know about what their so-called best watch collection's definition.

If you follow this thought about how most people appreciate the watch becoming what is your favorite watches will not mean that you can't find what you love.

Watch is able to be categorized love of individualism.

There is always very beautiful, rare and iconic watch not necessary those 80% can recognize...

such as Reverso, pre-Vendom Panerai, Rolex Prince, Rogers Dubuis bold large watch of the early time such as MuchMore, Cartier Crash, Santos and Tank. Patek's Calatrava, Vacheron Constantin Moonphase, slim and smaller Overseas of 37mm...Royal Oak of the 70s', Piaget Lapis or Onyx dress watch, Rolex Day Date Coral, Submariner Onyx, Rolex Milgauss of the 60s. 

Keep the list on and get what you like and more importantly is still affordable!

HK Snob

Tiger eye, meteorite and Onyx

It's not the make, it's not the size, it's not the price, it is the fun in collection.

Tiger eye, meteorite and onyx dial, super rare.

HK Snob
 

My Audemars Piguet finally back Home... Thanks AP

 I got my AP 5402BA A series finally from Le Brassus on 3 Nov. Thank You AP House.

Thank you Bowie Cheung and Elssi Yu

HK Snob

Hublot charges on watch repair - 5 Stars service

 

This is another case that I went to Hublot at IFC last Wednesday 19 Oct for this repair.

She took me two minutes to fill in some of the apps. and they took my watch. I asked how much.

They told me is about HK$5,000 to $6,000!

Their staff's professionalism proven today when the official invoice came indicating that service charge is $4,800 and replacement of hour and minutes hands is $625, crystal change is $1,430.

Total charges is $6,855. 

Hands and crystal changes is subject to me... I will change them.

This is another 5 stars super good service. 

They are efficient, 10 minutes to check the watch, 3 days to send me official quotation and the price is sweet!!

Hublot is getting very popular and gaining more market share in Asia Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore...

Thank you Hublot and your friendly staff!

HK Snob

Roger Dubuis charges on watch repair - 5 Star service

 

This is my experience for the second time at Roger Dubuis enjoying their super service.

First of all, they are professional and very knowledgeable on their products. Professional salesperson Brian Yu could even recognize me by calling my name after my last visit 5 years ago! 

I salute you!

Secondly they told me that they need to have about 6 days to do pre-evaluation on the charge on my watch. I went there at 5 pm on 19 Oct and they called me today on the quotation. That is 3 days!

Third, they are about to replace 6 parts as shown on the quotation, complete service and case polishing of the watch and the total price is HK$82,30!

I am amazed with their first-class service, response and the cost, which is not in their policy as part of the earning!

of course they watch is a white gold super heavy watch and was not cheap at all when we bought it. But after these years, there is wear and tear is unavoidable as this is sport watch.

Repair charge is very reasonable and very comfortable for us.

Thank you Roger Dubuis for such a great service.

We will continue support this Roger Dubuis in future.

HK Snob

IWC Automatic watch with Pellaton winding system 1344319

1955 IWC Automatic Pellaton Automatic watch in a 35mm stainless steel case with a clear silver dial. This particular watch has the Pellaton winding system. This system paved the way for IWC.

Pellaton hit upon a surprising solution: instead of putting a ball bearing or cog at the centre of the rotor, he used a heart-shaped, eccentrically bearing-mounted disc. The latter converts the rotor’s revolutions into the to-and-fro movements of a rocking bar. The bar’s rocking movements are then transmitted to the winding wheel by two pawls: while one of them pulls the wheel (i.e. winds it), the other glides smoothly over the top of it until the roles are reversed. The mechanism patented in 1950 is unusually efficient. “The rotor’s smallest movement in either direction is used to wind the mainspring,” explains Gäumann.

Even if the principle is simple enough, an automatic winding system poses many different challenges for the design engineers. On the one hand, the mechanism must function perfectly for a wide range of wearers with different habits and lifestyles. On the other, the automatic sub-assembly is exposed to more wear and tear than most other parts in the movement. In the new 52850 calibre, for instance, the rotor has to complete 2600 revolutions to fully wind the two barrels in the Portugieser Annual Calendar. Although the rotor weighs just less than five grams, the forces exerted on the components during rapid movements may be as much as 5000 times that of gravity. Protecting the oscillating system against wear and tear, therefore, merits special attention.

Movement: Automatic C852

This particular beauty is having an even patina dial which reflects a vintage taste of an IWC Iconic watch in early stage of automatic watches

It comes with an original certificate (warranty)

A real collectible item if you are a fan of IWC watches

HK Snob

 

Comparison on watch service charges in Hong Kong

Richard Mille RM11-Ti ($1.7m) complete service $28,500, 3 months 2019. Pacific Place boutique

Roger Dubuis MuchMore Perpetual Calendar yellow gold ($300,000) Complete service $19,000 (original price was $30,000, but I negotiated with the HK general manager and he gave me a special discount. 3 months 2018.Pacific Place Boutique

Patek Philippe Nautilus White gold 3800/1a ($1.5M) complete service $10,250, 4 months 2020, Peninsular Patek service centre

Vacheron Constantin Tourbillon solid yellow gold watch ($350,000) complete service $32,000 4 months 2020, 1881 Boutique

IWC Pilot Perpetual Calendar 34mm white gold ($320,000) service on time adjustment under warranty, Free of charge, 2019, IFC boutique

Rolex Daytona 16528 yellow gold ($340,000) complete service including spring bar1 pair and complete service $9,970, 3 months, Jardines house 14/F

JLC Reverso rose gold ($200,000) complete service $9000, 3 months 2020. Prince Building Boutique Central.

Hublot King Power ($230,000) complete service, estimated $5,000 under quotation stage, this week. IFC boutique.

Roger Dubuis Diver White gold ($200,000) complete service estimated $15,000 under quotation confirmation, last week. IFC boutique.

Comment on service

I think all carry good quality service, especially Patek Philippe, they are so professional, the staff is so friendly

Rolex is the lowest in price, people commented Rolex is not so good but I think they are having a standard charging scheme and super reasonable

These are all my beloved watches and they all carry good service. I almost forget to give Seiko service  another thumbs up! As even as small amount as HKD$400 of watch bracelet I ordered, they called me and told me where to pay deposit and will advise me when the bracelet will be available. very detail and helpful service.

All currency is HK dollar.

Remarks 

(Bracketed highlighted one is the current estimated value of the watch)

Audemars Piguet watch service is likely a rip off!

AP charges me for complete service a Royal Oak 5402BA with HK$198,000!  (US$25,710.00)

That is more than the SRP of a brand new automatic Royal Oak.

I went there two times already first time meeting lady and ask me to sign some document but I did not as it was about 6pm. I made another appointment again to meet them again. That was back in June. So I left the watch however they quote me verbally the complete service of this watch is about $100,000. Official quote has to be sent from AP le Brassus.

I also presented my Royal Oak Offshore 25770ST to them to overhaul, it is a chronograph and the charge was $14,000; and it was retuned me in two months... I was satiafied with that service.

I have asked them last two weeks why it take so long for the official quote for my 5402, they told me summer vacation of Switzerland… last Thursday they call me that the complete service charge is $198,000. That is to me not a reasonable price. My request is the break down for the charges, of course there will be a meeting on 14 Oct at AP House on this.

My experience in service watches typically watch I the past 3 year are here:-

Patek Philippe Nautilus 3800/1A white gold $10,250, 3.5 months – two year warranty, Superb service!

Rolex Daytona 16528 overhaul HK$9,000 (two months) – Good service.

IWC Pilot White gold perpetual calendar 34mm as I need to readjust the time from gain of 12 sec. a day then they retuned me with 2 sec. gain a day in two week! It was free as the watch is under warranty. This is an excellent service.

Richard Mille RM-11 Ti not running well, it time to overhaul after 2011. The charge was $28,500  2 months to return me…- Superb service, and I got one year extra warranty on that watch and a beautiful RM watch box.

Well, back to them 5402 well, this is an old watch believed it is in the year 1972. But it is a simple two hand automatic watch with JLC 2121 movement…

I think any one in HK can do the same job… but I just afford there in in case some parts is needed would be nice to be done in Audmemars Piguet.

This told me I was wrong… as according to AP House, there are only two watch smiths such are qualified to do this watch overhaul in Swiss… if that is true I just wonder wo can repair the 1985 ultra thin AP Perpetual calendar, which I had before.. probably the charge will be aso very high!

What I guess they don’t want to service older watch… or they would like to charge at certain percentage of the current value of your watch… this looks more appropriate as my 5402 which may worth at $2M. So say 10% o it would be about $198,000, Oh I just discovered the secret AP formula… as I had talked to the CEO of AP at Linked In page…he told me to send my detail info to social.media@audemarspiguet.com. That had been more than 10 days with no reply at all, even after my resent messages! Completely sucks! 

Conclusion

1.       They have only two qualified smith to handle vintage automatic Royal Oak watch in their factory

2.       How to service more complicated watch such as 1985 Perpetual calendar or even Tourbillion? Or Subcontract this service to other watch makers in Switzerland? That is why thy have to charge much higher?

3.       The charge scheme is based on 10% of the current value of the watch for complete service ?

4.       Comparing with excellent repair services at Patek, Rolex, IWC , Richard Mille Audemars Piguet is really need to learn from them in service support.

5.       The one who bought this 5402BA in 1972 saved Audemars Piguet from bankruptcy is now being punished for sending them the watch to repair… is that a Karma? IWho saved the Audemars Piguet in 1972-1974?

6.       Should I consider buying more Audemar Piguet watches in near future? No, I have the reply as I think there are better choice for me… Patek, Vacheron Constantin , Richard Mille, IWC, Panerai Rolex, Tudor or Grand Seiko! 

Moral of the story, AP is not as what I used to think it is as before.

I always believe a good after sales service is key to win a market segment.

HK Snob

Top Picture is now being a hostage for repair at le brassus 

Second picture top one is the Nautilus 3800/1a white gold after complete service at Patek Philippe Switzerland with just HK$10,250 still under two years warranty. I am super happy with Patek Service!

Common buying practice of watch in Hong Kong.

I am not trying to blame buyer, there are 80% good buyers, though there is some minority which are not too good. I know the complexity of the buying people‘s mind set sometimes they are confused, they are struggling why have to buy the watch in the open market via these trading platform such as eBay or Carousell, facebook, or eBay.

Especially in Hong Kong, those younger at age group between 24-38 years old many of them are quite lost in mind, as gathering from friends and watch sellers I know these are the quite common...

1.   Some of them are not serious buyer, some of them click your product as he wants to try luck to buy lucky go cheaper goods. They are not serious.

2.   Many of them would like to understand more on the product and he makes use of it to ask you questions only.

3.   Many of them want to buy but in over cautious way that he ask too many questions.

Don’t fall into the psychological trap that asking more meaning they are more interested in buy, they just don’t know. 80% of them don’t buy.

4.   Sometimes, we need to test them by providing a slower response and see if they stop interested in your products, and ask them experience on your products, as they might be empty on the knowledge on your product, they you can provide them more technical information of our products, and If they are serious then they will come back to you.

5.  These are common no buy signals:-

Let me think about it

Let me consider it

Can you further reduce the price?

6.   These are professional way to refuse your products

Oh I forget to ask, do you have the original invoice at Rolex (it has been stated no invoice)

I just noticed that there is a stain on the dial, Let me rethink about, (Actually there is no rusts at all)

Oh, my girl friend had just informed me she is pregnant and I need to save money for that!

7.   Scammer (most likely)

a.    Do you accept cheque?

b.    Can you meet me at 0300 morning ta Sham Shui Po Ap Liu street!? I pay cash for your two Daytonas

c.    She says she is busy at meeting suddenly and she sends his younger brother to trade with you. Please call his number to arrange. (beware)

8.   Why so cheap?

There is only one in 100 that asks why your products is so cheap, he might not buy also and

This is a most hilarious reply from one of my partners to this weird buyer.

“Because of COVOID-19, all my family member died and I need money to arrange their funerals! (This is a real one!)

 Have a nice day

 HK Snob

King of Rolex

 

Whatever Rolex models are you interested in, Daytona is of no question the top if the list, the auction record is held by Daytona, no matter Paul Newman, Platinum Daytona, Rainbow, we are likely talking about the Daytona family. 
This is 16528 with Zenith movement modified lower beat to suit the Rolex requirement. a durable work horse, Don't miss it if you see one.

Top of the line is black floating line in with inverted 6 in black, porcelain white, black with diamond,

Lapis Azuli dial. Onyx dial ( I have not seen one yet) Creamy dial P series 116520... W series 16520 Tropical dial.

Reference price (actual price depends on if there is paper and condition of it)

116520 white $200K

116520 Black $180K

116520 P Creamy dial $1m

16520 Black A $220K White $240K

16529 Black Black Patrizi $300K

16528 Black no diamond $280K

16528 Black with diamond dial $320K

Current production model 116500 White $270,000 Black $235000 

HK Snob

Remarks, attached with a Goro's bracelet 

Grand Seiko Ginza Tiffany Blue SBGH297 LE 260 pcs

 Grand Seiko SBGH297 Tiffany blue Ginza Limited edition we just received it yesterday from Japan.

We went to Seiko boutique which was moved from iSquare to CKE beside Chung King mansion,  the sales ladies were surprise to see such a watch too, It is quite unique and beautiful. As we need to adjust the bracelet length to the right size to wear.

I need to comment is that the service there are awesome as they are all friendly and very helpful! 

SRP is about HK$48000, but likely its is selling over the list price in HK, Japan. 

HK Snob

Dress watch

 I have seen a lot of people go with the hype for steel watch, as they think that can be used everyday.

Yes they could be worn everyday, but somehow these kinds of steel watches are tool's watch.

Such as those Rolex Submariner, GMT Master, Explorer, Daytona and or Milgauss, they are rugged, bigger but somehow it lacks of a kind of elegancy and style.

Have you noticed that the salespersons in Broadway, Fortress, or Watsons, they are wearing these Rolex tool watch, like part of their uniform. When foreign visitors come to Hong Kong, they told me why many Hong Kongers are so rich, I told them they need to be recognized in public, and the easy way is to wear a Rolex, and most of all. They are good reliable watches.

You seldom see a salesperson nowadays wear a Cellini, Calatrava, Tank or a Reverso... 

In fact they are also durable, strong and could be used a daily watch with exception that may be not too good if you need to work outdoor where you may sweat a lot that may not be comfortable on your wrist especially in Hong Kong' s hot and humid Summer. Other season, they are perfect watches.

I like those dress watch size from 30 -36 mm diameter, I think this is wrong with a dress watch of 39mm, 41mm that is not beautiful at all even you wrist is large as 18cm -19cm. They just don't look right with this size and proportion.

Dress watch should be

1. clean dial

2, Manual or Auto 

3. size 30-37mm

4. Thin 2-5mm 

5. Stone dial would be an added value but rare now

6. Precious metals case.

I think they are adorable and impeccable in taste.

HK Snob

Strategy for buying watch at 2H 2022

 I think I have some idea if I suppose a watch collector towards what watches to buy in 2H of 2022.

Stay away from new watches of Rolex, Patek, AP and even VC as they are still hard to get and still all over MSRP unless those models that is not in the hype.

Try to find some of the best dress watch you like from these four brands, as they are easier to get.

If you don't like dress watches, then I think you can forget it.

Try to buy at good price from the vintage market for those watches that is likely holding up prices in coming ten years, and those you would like to wear frequently.

Patek Annual calendar, Calatrava, AP's Offshore the early one as that may be the hit by 2023 the Offshore's 30th anniversary, Vacheron Constantin's Overseas Generation One and Two. Rolex Daytona 116520 P series creamy,  Daytona 16520 W, U or T series, Fat lady 16760 Coke, Rolex Pepsi 16710, Explorer II Creamy Polar 16570 or 16550. 

These are still available in the market with a reasonable price, but I am sure their price will go up later on.

HK Snob

It is time to buy some other watches that is more affordable with discounts

When price of Rolex is down 40% now comparing with 1 year ago.

What is Rolex AD is doing to change the situation? Nothing can be done.  Instead they may increase price again in 2023.

What is Patek, AP, VC’s Price, they can’t escape the price drop, may be less serious as Rolex.

Still price drop is more than 25-30%.

Being a watch lover, what shall I do?

Patek, AP, VC does not recognize me as a SVIP as I really don’t have good sales records in each of their AD.

Rolex? Yes, I did buy quite a number of pieces, may be 15 to 20 pieces just in one AD. This AD is also changing their strategy by their manager directly to his “preferred client” so basically I can’t get any watches at SRP from them

Luckily I am not too crushed on their new watches, instead I like more of their great vintages…so I think I am not losing any opportunity as I am not their “preferred client” except the Vachreon Constantin 222, as I really like this 2022’ s 222.

If I were the watch lover, I will focus on some of the classic vintage such as Patek “Perpetual calendar”,

AP Royal Oak early pieces such as 15300, 15202, 5402, Havana Chronometer, Patina dial Royal oak of 37mm. As for Vacheron Constantin, I love Overseas 42042 37mm as it is still being underestimated, or Overseas Gen 2, I have one but never use it as I don’t like his size, it is too large…as for Overseas Gen 3, I like 2300V as it is 37mm. just right… Of course it depends on your wrist size, mine is perfect for a 37-39mm watch…

How about Rolex, well, seriously, Rolex is just a good quality tool watch, nothing could surprise me in their Innovation, design and history… If not able to get it, just pass it… does not matter anymore…

As for Vintage, some of Rolex 1675, 1680, 16520, 16550, 1665… those with Sapphire glass is good as for their water proof function is superior to be use every day.

Besides, there are still a lot of beautiful watches from Cartier, Breguet, Panerai, IWC, Jaeger LeCoutle, why we have to limit ourselves to Rolex only. and we can enjoy some discount on certain models.

Some Cartier less 15-30%, some IWC less 15-30%,  some new Tudor less 20-40%, Panerai less 20-40%! Why not?

 Buying a watch is to wear it, appreciate it and not keep them in vault waiting for their value to go up, that may take a long process. It does not worth for the watch to be used in this manner.

My opinion only.

HK Snob