Audemars Piguet watch service is likely a rip off!

AP charges me for complete service a Royal Oak 5402BA with HK$198,000!  (US$25,710.00)

That is more than the SRP of a brand new automatic Royal Oak.

I went there two times already first time meeting lady and ask me to sign some document but I did not as it was about 6pm. I made another appointment again to meet them again. That was back in June. So I left the watch however they quote me verbally the complete service of this watch is about $100,000. Official quote has to be sent from AP le Brassus.

I also presented my Royal Oak Offshore 25770ST to them to overhaul, it is a chronograph and the charge was $14,000; and it was retuned me in two months... I was satiafied with that service.

I have asked them last two weeks why it take so long for the official quote for my 5402, they told me summer vacation of Switzerland… last Thursday they call me that the complete service charge is $198,000. That is to me not a reasonable price. My request is the break down for the charges, of course there will be a meeting on 14 Oct at AP House on this.

My experience in service watches typically watch I the past 3 year are here:-

Patek Philippe Nautilus 3800/1A white gold $10,250, 3.5 months – two year warranty, Superb service!

Rolex Daytona 16528 overhaul HK$9,000 (two months) – Good service.

IWC Pilot White gold perpetual calendar 34mm as I need to readjust the time from gain of 12 sec. a day then they retuned me with 2 sec. gain a day in two week! It was free as the watch is under warranty. This is an excellent service.

Richard Mille RM-11 Ti not running well, it time to overhaul after 2011. The charge was $28,500  2 months to return me…- Superb service, and I got one year extra warranty on that watch and a beautiful RM watch box.

Well, back to them 5402 well, this is an old watch believed it is in the year 1972. But it is a simple two hand automatic watch with JLC 2121 movement…

I think any one in HK can do the same job… but I just afford there in in case some parts is needed would be nice to be done in Audmemars Piguet.

This told me I was wrong… as according to AP House, there are only two watch smiths such are qualified to do this watch overhaul in Swiss… if that is true I just wonder wo can repair the 1985 ultra thin AP Perpetual calendar, which I had before.. probably the charge will be aso very high!

What I guess they don’t want to service older watch… or they would like to charge at certain percentage of the current value of your watch… this looks more appropriate as my 5402 which may worth at $2M. So say 10% o it would be about $198,000, Oh I just discovered the secret AP formula… as I had talked to the CEO of AP at Linked In page…he told me to send my detail info to social.media@audemarspiguet.com. That had been more than 10 days with no reply at all, even after my resent messages! Completely sucks! 

Conclusion

1.       They have only two qualified smith to handle vintage automatic Royal Oak watch in their factory

2.       How to service more complicated watch such as 1985 Perpetual calendar or even Tourbillion? Or Subcontract this service to other watch makers in Switzerland? That is why thy have to charge much higher?

3.       The charge scheme is based on 10% of the current value of the watch for complete service ?

4.       Comparing with excellent repair services at Patek, Rolex, IWC , Richard Mille Audemars Piguet is really need to learn from them in service support.

5.       The one who bought this 5402BA in 1972 saved Audemars Piguet from bankruptcy is now being punished for sending them the watch to repair… is that a Karma? IWho saved the Audemars Piguet in 1972-1974?

6.       Should I consider buying more Audemar Piguet watches in near future? No, I have the reply as I think there are better choice for me… Patek, Vacheron Constantin , Richard Mille, IWC, Panerai Rolex, Tudor or Grand Seiko! 

Moral of the story, AP is not as what I used to think it is as before.

I always believe a good after sales service is key to win a market segment.

HK Snob

Top Picture is now being a hostage for repair at le brassus 

Second picture top one is the Nautilus 3800/1a white gold after complete service at Patek Philippe Switzerland with just HK$10,250 still under two years warranty. I am super happy with Patek Service!

Common buying practice of watch in Hong Kong.

I am not trying to blame buyer, there are 80% good buyers, though there is some minority which are not too good. I know the complexity of the buying people‘s mind set sometimes they are confused, they are struggling why have to buy the watch in the open market via these trading platform such as eBay or Carousell, facebook, or eBay.

Especially in Hong Kong, those younger at age group between 24-38 years old many of them are quite lost in mind, as gathering from friends and watch sellers I know these are the quite common...

1.   Some of them are not serious buyer, some of them click your product as he wants to try luck to buy lucky go cheaper goods. They are not serious.

2.   Many of them would like to understand more on the product and he makes use of it to ask you questions only.

3.   Many of them want to buy but in over cautious way that he ask too many questions.

Don’t fall into the psychological trap that asking more meaning they are more interested in buy, they just don’t know. 80% of them don’t buy.

4.   Sometimes, we need to test them by providing a slower response and see if they stop interested in your products, and ask them experience on your products, as they might be empty on the knowledge on your product, they you can provide them more technical information of our products, and If they are serious then they will come back to you.

5.  These are common no buy signals:-

Let me think about it

Let me consider it

Can you further reduce the price?

6.   These are professional way to refuse your products

Oh I forget to ask, do you have the original invoice at Rolex (it has been stated no invoice)

I just noticed that there is a stain on the dial, Let me rethink about, (Actually there is no rusts at all)

Oh, my girl friend had just informed me she is pregnant and I need to save money for that!

7.   Scammer (most likely)

a.    Do you accept cheque?

b.    Can you meet me at 0300 morning ta Sham Shui Po Ap Liu street!? I pay cash for your two Daytonas

c.    She says she is busy at meeting suddenly and she sends his younger brother to trade with you. Please call his number to arrange. (beware)

8.   Why so cheap?

There is only one in 100 that asks why your products is so cheap, he might not buy also and

This is a most hilarious reply from one of my partners to this weird buyer.

“Because of COVOID-19, all my family member died and I need money to arrange their funerals! (This is a real one!)

 Have a nice day

 HK Snob

King of Rolex

 

Whatever Rolex models are you interested in, Daytona is of no question the top if the list, the auction record is held by Daytona, no matter Paul Newman, Platinum Daytona, Rainbow, we are likely talking about the Daytona family. 
This is 16528 with Zenith movement modified lower beat to suit the Rolex requirement. a durable work horse, Don't miss it if you see one.

Top of the line is black floating line in with inverted 6 in black, porcelain white, black with diamond,

Lapis Azuli dial. Onyx dial ( I have not seen one yet) Creamy dial P series 116520... W series 16520 Tropical dial.

Reference price (actual price depends on if there is paper and condition of it)

116520 white $200K

116520 Black $180K

116520 P Creamy dial $1m

16520 Black A $220K White $240K

16529 Black Black Patrizi $300K

16528 Black no diamond $280K

16528 Black with diamond dial $320K

Current production model 116500 White $270,000 Black $235000 

HK Snob

Remarks, attached with a Goro's bracelet 

Grand Seiko Ginza Tiffany Blue SBGH297 LE 260 pcs

 Grand Seiko SBGH297 Tiffany blue Ginza Limited edition we just received it yesterday from Japan.

We went to Seiko boutique which was moved from iSquare to CKE beside Chung King mansion,  the sales ladies were surprise to see such a watch too, It is quite unique and beautiful. As we need to adjust the bracelet length to the right size to wear.

I need to comment is that the service there are awesome as they are all friendly and very helpful! 

SRP is about HK$48000, but likely its is selling over the list price in HK, Japan. 

HK Snob

Dress watch

 I have seen a lot of people go with the hype for steel watch, as they think that can be used everyday.

Yes they could be worn everyday, but somehow these kinds of steel watches are tool's watch.

Such as those Rolex Submariner, GMT Master, Explorer, Daytona and or Milgauss, they are rugged, bigger but somehow it lacks of a kind of elegancy and style.

Have you noticed that the salespersons in Broadway, Fortress, or Watsons, they are wearing these Rolex tool watch, like part of their uniform. When foreign visitors come to Hong Kong, they told me why many Hong Kongers are so rich, I told them they need to be recognized in public, and the easy way is to wear a Rolex, and most of all. They are good reliable watches.

You seldom see a salesperson nowadays wear a Cellini, Calatrava, Tank or a Reverso... 

In fact they are also durable, strong and could be used a daily watch with exception that may be not too good if you need to work outdoor where you may sweat a lot that may not be comfortable on your wrist especially in Hong Kong' s hot and humid Summer. Other season, they are perfect watches.

I like those dress watch size from 30 -36 mm diameter, I think this is wrong with a dress watch of 39mm, 41mm that is not beautiful at all even you wrist is large as 18cm -19cm. They just don't look right with this size and proportion.

Dress watch should be

1. clean dial

2, Manual or Auto 

3. size 30-37mm

4. Thin 2-5mm 

5. Stone dial would be an added value but rare now

6. Precious metals case.

I think they are adorable and impeccable in taste.

HK Snob

Strategy for buying watch at 2H 2022

 I think I have some idea if I suppose a watch collector towards what watches to buy in 2H of 2022.

Stay away from new watches of Rolex, Patek, AP and even VC as they are still hard to get and still all over MSRP unless those models that is not in the hype.

Try to find some of the best dress watch you like from these four brands, as they are easier to get.

If you don't like dress watches, then I think you can forget it.

Try to buy at good price from the vintage market for those watches that is likely holding up prices in coming ten years, and those you would like to wear frequently.

Patek Annual calendar, Calatrava, AP's Offshore the early one as that may be the hit by 2023 the Offshore's 30th anniversary, Vacheron Constantin's Overseas Generation One and Two. Rolex Daytona 116520 P series creamy,  Daytona 16520 W, U or T series, Fat lady 16760 Coke, Rolex Pepsi 16710, Explorer II Creamy Polar 16570 or 16550. 

These are still available in the market with a reasonable price, but I am sure their price will go up later on.

HK Snob

It is time to buy some other watches that is more affordable with discounts

When price of Rolex is down 40% now comparing with 1 year ago.

What is Rolex AD is doing to change the situation? Nothing can be done.  Instead they may increase price again in 2023.

What is Patek, AP, VC’s Price, they can’t escape the price drop, may be less serious as Rolex.

Still price drop is more than 25-30%.

Being a watch lover, what shall I do?

Patek, AP, VC does not recognize me as a SVIP as I really don’t have good sales records in each of their AD.

Rolex? Yes, I did buy quite a number of pieces, may be 15 to 20 pieces just in one AD. This AD is also changing their strategy by their manager directly to his “preferred client” so basically I can’t get any watches at SRP from them

Luckily I am not too crushed on their new watches, instead I like more of their great vintages…so I think I am not losing any opportunity as I am not their “preferred client” except the Vachreon Constantin 222, as I really like this 2022’ s 222.

If I were the watch lover, I will focus on some of the classic vintage such as Patek “Perpetual calendar”,

AP Royal Oak early pieces such as 15300, 15202, 5402, Havana Chronometer, Patina dial Royal oak of 37mm. As for Vacheron Constantin, I love Overseas 42042 37mm as it is still being underestimated, or Overseas Gen 2, I have one but never use it as I don’t like his size, it is too large…as for Overseas Gen 3, I like 2300V as it is 37mm. just right… Of course it depends on your wrist size, mine is perfect for a 37-39mm watch…

How about Rolex, well, seriously, Rolex is just a good quality tool watch, nothing could surprise me in their Innovation, design and history… If not able to get it, just pass it… does not matter anymore…

As for Vintage, some of Rolex 1675, 1680, 16520, 16550, 1665… those with Sapphire glass is good as for their water proof function is superior to be use every day.

Besides, there are still a lot of beautiful watches from Cartier, Breguet, Panerai, IWC, Jaeger LeCoutle, why we have to limit ourselves to Rolex only. and we can enjoy some discount on certain models.

Some Cartier less 15-30%, some IWC less 15-30%,  some new Tudor less 20-40%, Panerai less 20-40%! Why not?

 Buying a watch is to wear it, appreciate it and not keep them in vault waiting for their value to go up, that may take a long process. It does not worth for the watch to be used in this manner.

My opinion only.

HK Snob

Rolex Bubble

Still many people talk about there is no seen evidence that Rolex watch price will move up from it lowest dip now. 

I don't know if that is so bad as of this time. well, there is a Rolex price threat by 2008 Leman Brothers and 2019 COVID -19.

This time the dip is going to the untouchable bottom, but I think everything must have one end, after that it will move it. Whether in September or December 2022 only.

HK Snob

Paul Thorpe comments on his you tube

 Today You tuber Paul Thorpe has mentioned  a few things:-

1. Rolex will increase price by 8% in 2023.

2. Rolex will not use any leather on his watches.

3. UK and USA is his biggest export countries.

4. Rolex is running at full production now.

Paul is one of my favorite you tubes channels on watches. well, he had mentioned two weeks ago that

by September the Rolex price will start to move up instead of keep falling.

by my understanding, only if Russia-Ukraine war comes to an end or the Rolex price is still facing with 

obstacle to rise again.

Let's see 10 days later what President Xi and Biden would talk about ? That may give us some hints on 

what Rolex price would be.

HK Snob

Today Hong Kong Market price of Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Richard Mille and Vacheron Constantin Overseas

 Daytona Ceramic Panda 116500LN white $260,000 (119)

Daytona Ceramic Panda 116500LN Black $240,000

Daytona White 116508Ng $560,000

Daytona 116519g Black white gold $325,000

Daytona 116509NG white $459,000

Date Just Wimbledon 126331 Oyster $112,000

Date Just 126334 Black oyster $85,500

Date Just 126331 Sundust oyster $99500

Submariner 126613LB Blue $125,000

Submariner 126613LN $135,200

Submariner Starbuck 126610LV $150,000

Pepsi GMT Master 126710BLRO $160,000

DeepSea 126660 Black $103,000

OP 124300 Tiffany $240,240

OP 124300 Red $146,000

OP 124300 Silver $60,600

Audemars Piguet

15500ST Black $395,000 (533)

15500ST Grey $385,000

15500ST White $385,000

Patek 

5167A $580,000 (463)

5168G $800,000 (189)

Vacheron Constantin 

Overseas 4500V/110A-B128 Blue stainless $300,000 (466)

Overseas Mid size blue 2300V $240000 (13)

The unit shown here is HKD. We are talking about all brand new watches, used watch is not being covered here.

The Bracket shows the search result of that watch at Chrono24 which means ow rare it it...

Good reference for what you want to buy for future as rarer pieces is more preferred by me.

These are the price as of Today  24 July as an average trading price in the market, I am not talking about MRSP price which is not so much of a meaning unless you re SVIP who can het at directly from Boutique.

Note that these price Have been dropped about 25-40% over the last 6 months and the trend is still dropping

Speed of dropping fastest is Rolex, then Patek Phillippe, AP and least is VC  ,meaning that these Rolex and Patek were flipped more than Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin.

How about RM, since RM is running in a comparatively small volume, and they re dominated by smaller groups of end user, they price is not really dropping too much.

Many peoples speculate that the price will see an end of dropping by September but some of the dealers are saying that it will happen end by December, so it is a bit [pessimistic, I am speculating that Rolex watch price will be stabilized by September.... but of course purely my personal thoughts, as I don't have a crystal ball to tell.

HK Snob

The difference of Vacheron Constantin Overseas Generation 1 Ref 42042 and 42040

 On and off we can see there is Overseas ref 42042 and 42040 which state also same 37mm diameter.

So what is the difference between this models? We can refer to the attached table. More ever 

according to the official reply to one of their watch fan, telling that Ref 42042 has a stronger and thickness movement which is more suitable as the movement on a sport watch.

As for dial, the early one is sigma, then T Swiss T, and the replacement dial Swiss made.

So the price of Ref 42042 and 42040 has a big price difference of about 30%.

How to tell your watch is Ref 42042? You can check the bracelet is engraved with "423J" that should be 42042.

How about Ref 42050, that is having a 35mm diameter Overseas. So the price is even lower.

HK Snob

When Rolex price will start to get back to normal?

 Today I visited some of the watch shops at CKE, TST of Hong Kong.

We talked about when the next Rolex price up will be?

I think September as by then the Russia Ukraine war should come to an end if not should 

be come to a resolution to stop.

Biden should find a way o sit down talking to President  Xi on how to get things moving on such that his seat at White House would be kept warm in November.

If that Russian war is settled , European, USA inflation will be having a way to be reduced. 

By then China had been fully recovered on it production capacity to regain momentum for chasing best GDP for the year.

And if so, the people will start to spend money on more or less more on luxury goods .

I pray for that... Let's see, only two months to go.

HK Snob

When Rolex price up?

As more and more people is asking me when Rolex Price is up again.

Is it the lowest price now?

What I see that when HSI is at this 22000 point, US and UK inflation is highest over the last 40 years. 

No such good news of Putin will hand shake with Ukraine President?

I think the Rolex price is still going down further in July at least

I can't tell as I don't have crystal ball on when Rolex price is up again.

When you can afford and when it is not lowest, there is a good deal found, it is time to buy. IMHO

HK Snob

Watch bubble bursts?

 Until the day I am writing, watch price still does not stop dropping.

Always if the market is bad, people is scary to buy and the whole dealer or seller or grey dealer may go for panic sale. so this avalanche effect would further spoil the market.

Johnson is facing large scale strike in UK led by the trainer worker across the country, they have been facing the work inflation over the last 40 years, on the other side of the continent, Biden is scratching his head what should he do on one side putting sanction on Shinjiang Uyghur products into USA and other side knee down begging to meet Xi. On the other side USA is sending his Japanese little brother to join with  Korea with the new president to give trouble to the Eastern water, don't forget Korea and Japan is never a friend for the last 100 years. so internally there are Okinawa citizens coming up protect again Fumio Kishida. and South Korean are not happy with Yoon Suk-yeoi's new move. 

Watch price will not be affected by world political situation, to certain extend is less as prominent as stock markets and consumer's products because it is classified as luxury product which is by right the last resort of monetary asylum.

Both Eastern and Western countries are in great trouble, and Russia does not seem to stop the war now as one way to change the world, and China and Russia seems getting closer...

anyway this is purely mu opinion on the world current situation, back to the watches.

I see trade between dealer on these watches

Patek Aquanaut 5167A is $595,000

AP 15500ST Royal Oak auto 41 mm white dial is $370,000

Daytona white 16500 is now $270,000

Comparing with 2021, it has been dropped over 20% on PP, AP and Rolex as an average, vintage even worse no one watch to buy 1680, 1665, 16520 at the market price unless very special watches.

What s next? 

Watch out for next two months.

HK Snob

Unit here is HKD

Courtesy picture from Italian Watch Spotter

AP House visit with my Royal Oak Ref 5402BA

This is my second time re-visited AP house, I had another experience. As for this time I feel I was being properly treated. I was meeting with a supervisor who actually I knew her when she was with other watch brands 5 years ago. 

She could say this is a 5402 A series! Surprisingly this is a difference between a supervisor and other staff. knowing me that I like vintage watch, she gave me two heavy books for my reference. Then she mentioned that this watch may be handled by la brassus factory for complete service. I saw a decent  service there, immediate i put down my another 1997 Offshores for completed service.

She told ne the service charges of the 5402 is about HK$100,000. Well, regarding the sentimental value and economical value of this watch, I said OK. 

The issue is 6 months, I told her I have no concern on the delivery time just not to further polish that watch and don't change the dial as this is the soul of this watch...

Well, to be a successfully company, customer handling is key... I think this time AP is doing the right thing.

HK Snob

When watch price will go up again?

Many people questions when watch price will go up again.

This is a big topic which is also a challenge o many of the financial guy for watch trades.

I think the basic need for watch to regain its price momentum is, no more war, no more crazy inflation at like US nowadays. 

Also people will have good political stability in all major Western and Eastern countries.

If US is still treating his up coming second strong country as an emerging target of conflict then this watch price will never go up again!

Uncle Sam should sit down talking to Chinese on how to create a better community of shared future of the mankind, instead of using sanction or military threat to stop other country's development and growth... stupid.

Anyway this is watch log not political forum. 

HK Snob